I consider myself a generally tolerant chap but I sometimes get a little irritated by naturists (usually they are Orientals) who are so obviously ashamed of nudity. They will talk about how natural nudity is and how we must tell the textile world that there is nothing wrong with nudity and we mustn't wrongly associate it with sex but when it comes to posting their photos in a naturist forum, they come up with all kinds of excuses. They may blot out their entire faces the way suspected criminals' faces are pixellated in newspapers or they may post only photos that are ambiguous as to whether they are really naked. And in the same post, they talk about how natural nudity is.
I usually don't say a word when I see such posts in the naturist forums I'm on. I understand the culture among Orientals generally. After all, those of us who are ethnically Chinese are extremely conservative and we've been so since Confucius gave examples of how only animals had no shame and could appear naked in the open. How often do you see a Chinese man or woman naked at the WNBR?
But what really gets my goat is when people who claim to be naturists criticise other naturists who post photos of themselves that show the genitals. I have seen on various occasions naturists who are of the view that we should all conceal our genitals in photos that we post online because it's more "tasteful". If these people can have their way, they will soon demand that we all put on clothes because it's more tasteful.
All my friends whom I grew up with, attend the same schools and uni with, go to the same church with, are without exception non-naturists. Every one of them. But I openly declare to all of them that I'm a naturist but they all seem to think I'm a naturist because I'm eccentric. To them, there must be a reason why anyone would want to be a naturist. To them only a morally debauched person would go to a nudist gathering and since I'm happily married and very much a family man, I must be eccentric.
Recently, a group of my friends with whom I would normally communicate by means of a group email that goes to everyone in the group, discovered online some of the many photos of me in a naturist setting. They were concerned and they told me that I was exposing myself to possible blackmail by unscrupulous people. One of them remarked that it was a "very explicit" photo because it showed me in frontal nudity and my face could be seen very clearly and why didn't I cover my face???
But you see, my friends are non-naturists and I don't blame them for thinking that way. But I do know of quite a few naturists I've met in Asian naturist forums and even on international forums who think in precisely the same way. They are ashamed of posting any photo that shows their faces and their nudity. Of course I have since met other genuine Asian naturists but unlike the West where naturism seems to have taken off rather successfully, there are really very few of us in Asia who are not ashamed of our nudity.
It will probably take many more generations before this decidedly textile mindset is changed in my society.
Anyway, to my friends on the group email exchange, I sent this photo. I told them that the blackmailers could have a whale of a time blackmailing not just me but my two other triplets as well. I haven't yet got their response. LOL.
<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f5y-tD3f9mY/U2SEVJuIGWI/AAAAAAAC_Fc/29ksbY-0cqc/s800/SAM_0081.JPG">
" I was so tempted to tell her that I wouldn't have been so insane as to marry her in the first place but alas, society doesn't allow me to speak that way to a woman" why? if they want to play with the men and make judgmental or other comments they should expect to play by the boys rules. My philosophy is if you want to be treated like a lady Fing act like one.
Even my subs are treated like ladies out side the play arena. And I expect others to treat them the same as I do.
Also, I have a very strong aversion to being arrested and locked up. As all the places we frequent would if we went nude result in that exact situation we avoid it like the plague.
a good point. I have especially when i wanted a specific point to research at a later time. sometimes i suffer from crs.
i should mention i suppose that we are quite used to video chats so a fixed camera is rather redundant.
No, it's not. I use video chats all the time. Skype, google chats, msn, yahoo messenger etc all use video chats now but that won't make the camera redundant. They are for a totally different purpose. I wouldn't want to record a video chat. That'd be a waste of time. But a photo is different. I keep it forever. It's a record of my life and it's a good way to re-live an experience.
we bought a new camera almost a year ago. it has been out of the case once. I looked in the case recently just to see what it was. 😀
You are just like my wife. But I always tell her that I'm on safer ground since I have photographic evidence of everything I do. Recently, a friend of mine told me that he got a summons for the police about some traffic offence he allegedly committed almost a year ago. He had no idea what he did that long ago and he could not decide whether he should pay the composition fine. It's very simple for me. All I have to do is to look at my google+ which is classified into the different dates. I can reconstruct precisely what happened on that day and the time stamp on all the photos are extremely useful. What is more. If I'm accused of having gone through a red light along a particular road, I could show photographic evidence of myself riding my bicycle at another part of town. This would certainly be compelling evidence of my innocence. Anyway, my wife said she would rather risk getting fined. LOL.
Ok i need to explain something. We have just one picture in our profile. it is clothed. there is a reason for that. we have just 3 pictures of ourselves and it is the best one. We havent taken any nudes just hasnt occured to us because its normal daily living.
As for the black mail aspect you can only be blackmailed if you have something to hide.
We are Wiccan and SBNR we have had people threaten to out us several times. My reaction has always been what are you going to tell them ? Im a Witch? anyone that knows me knows that. That we are into an alternative life style? again anyone that knows us knows that. so what are you going to tell them? That I prefer english beer and single malt Scotch? big deal.
Haha, Don, you are so funny. Thanks for that hilarious post. No, I do know there are people who don't take selfies and photos generally. My wife is one such person. She can survive for 6 months or more without taking a single photo. I'm inclined to think she's gone without snapping a pic for more than a year. Of course if she were a naturist (but she's not) nobody would expect her to post her nude photos anywhere. She probably hasn't got any. But a lot of people I know are a little like me. (I'd like to suggest that perhaps Orientals have a certain love for taking pics but I'll stay clear of racial stereotypes even though I think I'm probably the only Oriental on this site so I can't possibly offend anyone).
I may be more extreme than even most of my friends. I can't survive a day without taking photos. My church orchestra members depend on me to supply them with photos of our group all the time because if there is anyone snapping photos, I'm the one. Now, if a naturist is in the habit of taking so many photos and selfies when he's clothed and posts them on Facebook, blogs and flickr, how sincere would he be if he hides all his nude photos and when he posts a tiny photo of himself naked, he takes care to conceal his face? It doesn't apply to everyone. But if I don't post my own nude photos (and anyone who knows me knows I post thousands of my own pics all the time), how sincere would I be as a nudist? But I do post a lot of my own pics in every nudist forum and site that I'm on so I guess I'm a reasonably sincere nudist. LOL.
Not the only Oriental on this site anymore 🙂
I totally agree with the idea that nudism is not shameful. Now here is the but… I also feel that we shouldn't force our nudism in a forum if that server isn't nude friendly, like Facebook. We do not need to show our pics to prove we are nudists when we engaged in such a group. Ya, I still but FB friendly nudes on my own profile there, at least no frontals, but that jeopardizes my own profile not a given groups.
Nobody should ever have to post their nudity anywhere, unless they want to. And probably not anywhere they want to either, (although it might be nice to have the option from time to time). Of course being Naked Online Ok here 🙂
Precisely. Hence the need for this site. If you force nudism on a non-nudist friendly site, you will get banned for sure. There are rules in every site. I was once banned from a Christian forum because I voiced certain problems about our scriptures. As the moderator told me, voicing problems is ok but providing strong arguments that the Bible is wrong would necessitate a ban according to the rules. We have to follow the rules of the website. I know someone who was banned from a naturist forum because he posted an erection pic of his. That was the rule of the website. That has made me very careful every time I post a pic on naturist websites. I will err on the side of caution. If a pic looks like one even though I know it isn't, I wouldn't post it.
I have posted nude photos on Facebook but I restricted access to only people who I know are naturists.
Great blog, Earnest. It's a shame Asian people are ashamed of nudity when Asians are some of the most beautiful people in the world. Even though I am a strong proponent of the human body, joining this site is the first time I felt comfortable posting pictures of myself on the Internet, not so much because I was ashamed to do so elsewhere, but here seems more appropriate. Keep up the good work with your excellent blogs. Hope you will accept my friend request so it will be easier for me to keep up with what you are up to.
Thanks for your kind words, Martin. Thanks for the friend request. It's true very few Asians I know are comfortable with nudity. I think most of them tend to be more introverted and retiring. I wonder if extremely introverted people are more susceptible to feelings of shame even when there is no basis for it. I could be wrong and there is no real ground for what I say but I'm just thinking out loud and it's something I've observed even in my own family.
It is a pity that so many cultures brand nudity as "immodest" and "wrong". I think your mum has a good attitude – she is not a nudist herself, but is tolerant and interested in your experience.
Yes, I suppose it's a legitimate question to ask. She was curious if I felt embarrassed. When I told her I felt nothing, she went on to other topics which were more interesting to her. One pious woman I knew in church was quite judgmental. She said if she were my wife, she'd divorce me. I was so tempted to tell her that I wouldn't have been so insane as to marry her in the first place but alas, society doesn't allow me to speak that way to a woman. LOL.
More or less what Churchill said to Lady Astor, (see my recent quote) 😀
http://www.naktiv.net/feed/feed_47113/
This is a great discussion. Here's an entirely different point of view.
I really applude Ernest's attitude and photos. It's refreshing to encounter someone who is so open and honest about their lifestyle and so obviously enjoying it. Each of the photos I've seen really embody what Naktiv is about.
From my personal point of view I'm quite comfortable not having to prove anything to anyone. I don't make that statement in a defensive tone, rather a very free and open one.
I enjoy being naked at home, and walking out in the open in public nature reserves because I'm not ashamed of what I'm doing.
It is precisely for that reason that I feel absolutely no compulsion to take photos or post them. The fact is, if I do take photos it's always of the environment. On the rare occasion that I post images, it is of the surroundings.
One might wonder why is that?
For me personally naturism is about the environment and surroundings. A handful of my most enjoyable moments have been sitting next to the river meditating, listening to the rush and rumble of water over rocks mesmerized by the flow of water.
Likewise there is a meadow with a perfect rock for sitting on. I can balance my singing bowl sitting there and absorb the sunshine, focus on the rich deep tone of the bowl and become one with the landscape.
The third spot I enjoy is deep in the forest sitting atop a fallen log with the only sound the birds all around me. There is a deeply calming stillness, and again in deep meditation you become one with that environment.
For me the normalization of Naturism is not taking photos of myself, and that I feel is as important as those that do.
The reason I say this is because when I first started getting into naturism it seemed if you were really serious about it, you took photos and posted them.
Nothing further could be from the truth, and people need to understand that. Newcomers I mean.
Naturism is not about exhibitionism or voyeurism and yet with the huge emphasis and importance seemingly placed on pictures one can easily understand why some might get confused.
Although we're now living in a society where if there isn't a photo it didn't happen, I feel it's important for people to understand it's as normal not to photograph every aspect of your life. It's also normal to be naked and not feel the inclination to photograph and share it.
The stand out photos for me are those taken by photo hobbyists who know how to compose an interesting shot. Likewise those who tend to portray an interesting composition vs a "this is me naked" kind of shot.
To some degree I don't feel all photos portray nakedness in a good light. There are some photos that don't portray people who participate in naked activities in a good light.
I don't ever think I've seen a happy smiling photo that falls into those categories. Quite the opposite which is why when you do see them they stand out like beacons. "Now there is someone enjoying what they're doing. "
I don't think I've ever been able to put my finger on exactly what it is that creeps me out about some photos. I think however that's it. The unsmiling, unhappy this is me naked photos.
Indeed shane, it's all about freedom of choice. And this is what many people would deny us, both the freedom to be naked and the freedom to show that we are naked online by posting memorabilia of our holidays or adventures. Nobody HAS to be naked, and of course equally nobody has to post those photos either, but we CAN, and surely that's the point.
Of course Shane is right. A naturist doesn't have to take pics. In fact, nobody has to. It's really up to the person. I'm the photos kind of guy. My wife is not. Whenever we go on a holiday, I can't go anywhere without at least a camera with me. I usually carry several. My wife finds it amusing that I needed to get a monopod. A monopod is for those who love to take selfies. But it's all really up to the person. I know of people who can go on a holiday without snapping a single pic. I really can't.
Because I'm such a pics/selfies kind of person, it isn't surprising if I take lots of my own nude pics too. But it would be utterly wrong to expect others to do the same. We are all different. That is something we must first establish. Whether a person takes pics or not is really a personal choice.
But at the same time, from my own personal experience, I can say that there are a lot of uses for naturist pics. For textile folks, it's a novelty. I remember telling some friends a long time ago that I went to a naturist gathering. Nobody believed me. When I showed them the photos, somehow, the reality of the event crystalizes and they feel they can relate to it. I had some friends who initially thought a naturist gathering meant an orgy. So I showed them the pics and I told them who was married to whom in the pics and after some time, it dawned on them that hey, this is a perfectly decent gathering and it's not an orgy. But of course one doesn't need photos to preach naturism. I'm not saying photos are a prerequisite for telling others about naturism. It's one tool and a pretty graphic one.
But ultimately, whether one takes photos or not is really no different from a debate I once saw in a naturist forum – whether a person should shave or not. Surely, it's a matter of choice!!!
Bingo
I can appreciate your point-of-view, Shane, especially if one is good with words and can express the delight, serenity and happiness of being one with nature and free. But for me, sometimes a photo helps to show those emotions and feelings, as I'm not very good at expressing my inner feelings in words.
Also, as Richard has posted numerous times, it's a matter of choice. I respect those who have no desire to post their photo because they don't feel it accomplishes anything positive, but I do want to communicate with those who fear posting nude photos of themselves because of their social position or someone at work will see it.
To me it's a matter of so what if they see a nude photo of you.
Even though it seems at times society is abhorred at the sight of a nude body, I find that when I discuss it with people on a one to one basis, they find that their fears are unfounded.
Another point I would like to make is if someone finds a photo of me nude on the internet, will they approach me to question me about it? If so, I can ask what they were looking for on nudist/naturist sites and get a conversation going about the joys of my lifestyle.
Yes Shane exactly! I try only to post photo's that mean something and look good in an artistic way or tell a story. The 'look I'm naked' shots which sAY nothing else are usually very boring.
It really depends on the person. Some of us love taking selfies and posting them on Facebook, twitter, instagram, etc. I happen to be one of them. LOL. How would it sound if I take clothed selfies regularly and post them on my wall but when I'm naked, I suddenly lose the love of taking selfies and posting them on a naturist wall? It must mean that there is a difference between clothed photos and nude photos to me and I'm more reluctant to post the nude ones. It surely must mean that. It's different for people who don't post selfies or even take them in the first place. My wife is a good example. If such people are naturists, they probably won't post selfies either.
Ernest, you wrote: "a little irritated by naturists (usually they are Orientals) who are so obviously ashamed of nudity." – and i have to strongly disagree with you here. Most of the naturists who I meet who are ashamed of their nudity are NOT orientals, but people of European descent. But that might be because I live in Europe 🙂
Seriously, I also constantly find it extraordinary how so many people, (of all races and types), who profess to live/love a lifestyle which promotes the health and joy of the naked human body can be so obsessed with hiding it "in public". The mind truly boggles at the hypocrisy!
This is the job here, to show the way to greater public acceptance of nudity, and to show how safe and how much fun that is, and for the rest to follow in their own good time.
Some people may truly feel the desire to throw off the oppressive inhibitions that have been ingrained to their very souls by the textile world since their childhood. They touch their toes to the water and feel it to be warm and inviting. They may only need but a nudge to get them to dive in.
As I always tell my friends (who are all resolutely textile and uncompromisingly non-naturist), you should only fear posting your nude pics online if you lived in the 19th century and you wanted very badly to apply for the post of the Chief Eunuch in the Forbidden City in Beijing. A photo showing the world that you have not been castrated will most certainly dash all hopes of getting that no doubt coveted job. Hahaha.
I agree 100 percent, Ernest. If all of us who proclaim to be naturists/nudist would unashamedly post post photos of ourselves in our natural, nude state with faces showing it would show the world that nudity is a natural state. Too many of us (I'd say the majority) are afraid of what society will say, consequently leaving the textile world to think that us nudist/naturists are a small minority in society. I'm rambling, but I hope you see that I'm also upset with this problem.
Yes, Carl. It's hypocritical of us to say nudity is natural if we are ashamed of it. The onus is on us naturists NOT to be ashamed of nudity and if we don't dare to post our own frontal nude pics with face shown online, it really MUST mean we are ashamed.
There are (at least) two sides to this though. On the one hand, yes, more people should be comfortable with sharing their holiday snaps, illustrations of their adventures, their aspirations etc. On the other hand it would be churlish to say that everyone must do so.
IMHO this must always be a personal choice, just as "coming out", so is "coming out naked" a personal choice. Forcefully making people do this would be the wrong move, even if very tempting 😉
Being open about our activities is the only way to banish the demons which hold us back from public acceptance. It is up to all of us, who are happy to do so, to take a step forward, to make it easier for those who find it more difficult. We are already seeing more and more daily acceptance of public nudity, in part thanks to the internet. Let's keep pushing that envelope!
I totally agree with you. I've re-read what I wrote and unfortunately what comes out doesn't sound quite the way I intended it. In some naturist forums I'm on, there is this huge debate on whether everyone should be required to post photos of themselves nude with their faces. Although I'm personally ok with that, I have always objected to making that a requirement. My belief is it's got to be up to the person. Some people are extremely private and they have the right to be so. But I take great objection to naturists who object to photos where the crotch is not concealed. I have come across a few such naturists. They will make comments that a photo is inappropriate because the subject did not take pains to hide his or her genitals. You are absolutely right about those of us who are more open pushing the envelope. I agree with that.
Well said. I know how it is, (from personal experience/mistakes), when we get enthusiastic, and write what we're thinking. Sometimes in the cold light of a new day, the words can seem a tad emphatic. Softly, softly, catchee monkey 🙂
You hit the nail on the head, Ernest. The only way to avoid the threat of blackmail, (to which so many more traditional nudists ascribe), is the pre-emptive strike. Nobody can threaten to expose your naked image if you've already "come out naked".